Mary Rodwell, Extended Consciousness Hierarchy |587|

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Mary Rodwell, Extended Consciousness Hierarchy |587|
by Alex Tsakiris | Mar 15 | Consciousness Research
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Mary Rodwell… hypnosis… healing… alien contact experience… UFO/UAP expereience… psychic abilities… past life regression.
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Mary says that ET will, “someday change the consciousness of the planet.” I’m sure it already has, in ways which we are not aware of. This is why Jacques Vallee was so far ahead of his time. It was he who, decades ago, said said (paraphrasing), “we need to stop counting discs in the sky and begin paying attention to the psychological and even physical effects which ET incurs upon experiencers and abductees.” He was always drawn towards the profound effects that these experiences had on the psyche of experiencers. His view has finally gained traction over the years but he was a pariah in the field for so long because of this. And to this day so many researchers just want to count saucers in the sky and leave it at that.

I think regression, like any channeling of any sort (including mediumship) holds value and certainly warrants lots of consideration and investigation. And I have no doubt that other conscious beings can communicate with us through consciousness, as humans can amongst themselves. But I think its probably unwise to (as a general rule) take any piece of information retrieved in this manner completely at face value and to go on to integrate it seamlessly into any particular theory or worldview. Particularly given what we know about the “trickster” nature of spirits, ET, etc. etc., alongside the power of suggestion and whatever roles our flawed subconscious may play in this processes.

I have always enjoyed Marys take. Fun interview.
 
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Wormwood said:
“we need to stop counting discs in the sky and begin paying attention to the psychological and even physical effects which ET incurs upon experiencers and abductees.”
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Great point... great paraphrase [[p]]


I think regression, like any channeling of any sort (including mediumship) holds value and certainly warrants lots of consideration and investigation. And I have no doubt that other conscious beings can communicate with us through consciousness, as humans can amongst themselves. But I think its probably unwise to (as a general rule) take any piece of information retrieved in this manner completely at face value and to go on to integrate it seamlessly into any particular theory or worldview. Particularly given what we know about the “trickster” nature of spirits, ET, etc. etc., alongside the power of suggestion and whatever roles our flawed subconscious may play in this processes.
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I certainly understand where you're coming from... we can all think of plenty of examples where folks seem to throw logic and reason out the window because the spirits whispered something in their ear.

But I don't think we pay enough attention to the flip side of this... i.e. the reflexive skepticism toward " channeled" material.

How would your favorite " Channeler " stack up against counterintelligence info from lue elizondo.

It seems to me like it's about sharpening up our powers of discernment. what is good channeled material? How do we validate/verify? how do we effectively sort through disinformation / misinformation?
 
I listened to this episode this morning thoroughly entirely enjoyed it. This is another example of Alex being the best in the business.
Just some points and thinking aloud here...

I think the only other show that could do an interview on this level would be Greg at Higherside Chats. Would be a different spin for sure, but on the same level.

I'm Surprised that I don't remember listening to the other episodes with Mary Rodwell, and now i will go back and listen to them all. And likewise I'm gonna go check Higherside Chats for episodes with her.

Mary seems like such a beautiful person, and I hope she flies out to Southern California some time to do a presentation, if so I'm there!

Fun pointer, Alex. I had a conversation with you once and I attempted to make a point that Mary succeeded at making in this interview which was the idea that different people might be here for different reasons. My application of that was to the Why Evil Matters question. My point was (rhetorically) that it could even be the case that "evil" people are doing a service by preforming the life of an evil person and incurring all the associated karma. Of course we don't know., but this would match up with the energetic reaction I get when i consider the Karmic repercussions of thought like "well why don t we just round up all the evil people and dump them in the ocean?" which sparks a confusing feeling of unfairness - like it would feel justified, but that's not the problem we're here to solve.

Another fun pointer, I found it hilarious when Mary used the label "the Nuts-and-Bolters" almost as a pejorative. I laughed.

Monumental work, Alex! Bravo.


(Edit Add)
Going back to listen to past Mary Rodwell episodes now. Looks like it's the following episodes:
228. 308, 423, and 587(current)
 
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Robbedigital said:
Alex. I had a conversation with you once and I attempted to make a point that Mary succeeded at making in this interview which was the idea that different people might be here for different reasons.
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Haha... I remember that.

you could be totally right. and/or it could be more like the SRA heart chakra story from pmh Atwater. I think that story leaves open the possibility of both entering into a negative / evil situation by choice, or losing your soul/ light while in this incarnation.
 
i went back and listened to the three past episodes and then listened to the new one a second time.

Mary makes it pretty clear she’s not settled as to whether our existence could be a hologram. I agree. But if you go deep enough with that thought the word Hologram could just be a cheap description of dimensional layering. Or maybe it is a hologram inside some crystalline mega computer.

I also didn’t hear Mary make any definitive claim that the ET’s are from off planet. And she did mention underground bases quite a bit. I don’t think she ever mentioned people being abducted into space. I’m currently of the opinion that it’s all happening here locally and the off-planet experience templates are coping mechanisms / tools used to keep the humans from going looking for them underground. I won’t settle on it because I have know idea what fills the rest of the universe, but I’m not afraid of finding out all the “aliens” are just here and maybe even from here.

I’ll be listening to all those interviews again for sure. Mary’s personality and skill set are a match for my interests totally.
 
Robbedigital said:
i went back and listened to the three past episodes and then listened to the new one a second time.

Mary makes it pretty clear she’s not settled as to whether our existence could be a hologram. I agree. But if you go deep enough with that thought the word Hologram could just be a cheap description of dimensional layering. Or maybe it is a hologram inside some crystalline mega computer.

I also didn’t hear Mary make any definitive claim that the ET’s are from off planet. And she did mention underground bases quite a bit. I don’t think she ever mentioned people being abducted into space. I’m currently of the opinion that it’s all happening here locally and the off-planet experience templates are coping mechanisms / tools used to keep the humans from going looking for them underground. I won’t settle on it because I have know idea what fills the rest of the universe, but I’m not afraid of finding out all the “aliens” are just here and maybe even from here.

I’ll be listening to all those interviews again for sure. Mary’s personality and skill set are a match for my interests totally.
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This could be true. ET also really MIGHT be from other planets of this Universe, but their grip on technology and understanding of and ability to manipulate consciousness is so advanced compared to ours that it has people like you and I thinking that they must not be of this Universe.

But I tend to agree with you. I also think a lot of these experiences might simply be planted in experiencers minds. It’s a good way to make sense of some of the bizarre nature of these experiences. For example, there are many mass sightings of blatant UFO/UFO’s which appear right in front of dozens of people, but only half of the people have the experience and or even see them, despite the craft being supposedly right under their noses. There’s also a number of cases that I’m familiar with where experiencers are taken up into a seemingly small craft, but once they are inside, suddenly the interior of the craft is absolutely enormous. And on and on etc. etc. etc.
 
Alex said:
Great point... great paraphrase [[p]]




I certainly understand where you're coming from... we can all think of plenty of examples where folks seem to throw logic and reason out the window because the spirits whispered something in their ear.

But I don't think we pay enough attention to the flip side of this... i.e. the reflexive skepticism toward " channeled" material.

How would your favorite " Channeler " stack up against counterintelligence info from lue elizondo.

It seems to me like it's about sharpening up our powers of discernment. what is good channeled material? How do we validate/verify? how do we effectively sort through disinformation / misinformation?
Click to expand...
The Seth Material, which I first encountered in the 1970s, was extremely impressive, to the extent that I'd have 'body rushes' while reading. Years later I realized that (1) There was NO WAY I could verify ANY of it (at least until this body dies) and (2) It was totally unclear, unknowable really, WHO or WHAT Seth really was.

With regard to the whole ET/UFO morass, I have no f'ing idea. I don't outright dismiss any of it, but I just ain't an 'experiencer'. Sue me! And if I ever do become an 'experiencer', that'll mean that 'ET' whatever it may be, has decided to disclose itself to EVERYONE. In the interim, it'll just be in the realm of 'high weirdness entertainment'. All that said, thanks for the good show. Cheers!
 
What an absolutely FASCINATING interview!!

Even just that vignette at the beginning was such a drop the mic moment.

Assuming it's accurate (and Mary Rodwell seems trustworthy), of the report of the man having been an alien in a previous incarnation, who was seen as a god by a different species, and then went on to decimate and enslave the less powerful species... then he had a life review between incarnations and was ashamed of what he and his species had done.

Well that data point fits the picture that ET is part of the cycle of life, death (incl. life reviews) and rebirth. And that in the ancient human past what were called "gods" included beings of different, more powerful species
 
Alex said:
It seems to me like it's about sharpening up our powers of discernment. what is good channeled material? How do we validate/verify? how do we effectively sort through disinformation / misinformation?
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For me, the gold standard would be your suggestion of filming regressions. That's a brilliant and simple test. But Dr Jacobs turned down your offer...

I was already suspicious of his vibe, but hearing him dodging your suggestion I became even more suspicious
 
PS I wonder if Rodwell would be up for filming some regressions, such as of the man who said he was an alien and had a life review...
 
While I don't think that Jacobs and Hopkins were deliberately setting out to do bad work, they did. Neither were trained in regression or spiritual psychology, and neither were neutral in the regression work they undertook. I've listened to some of Jacobs's sessions with Emma Woods, and he asks leading questions and makes traumatising suggestions while she is under hypnosis (which is unethical and potentially harmful): https://emmawoodsbooks.com/david-m-jacobs/

Hopkins' ex-wife Carol Rainey is currently writing a book about her experience with him and his regression work, because she felt it had harmed some people, and she saw first-hand how suggestible vulnerable people are (some chapters are at the above link).

I first became interested in this topic when I was speaking to a prominent and well-known UFO researcher who told me how damaging their session with Hopkins was back in the 80s, because Hopkins was insisting that the Beings had a negative agenda while this person was under hypnosis, which left them terrified when they had not previously been (because they had only had positive experiences). I decided to look into it and found the info at the above link.

The usual response to this information in the ufo community is anger and denial, "it's just a disgruntled ex-wife etc". I don't agree. I think there is something here, and it's relevant to how the field of UFOlogy can be deceived, and how harm has been done.

Re evil; I put this in the 'banal evil' category. Meaning that if we don't constantly hold ourselves to a high standard of integrity, it's easy to get swept away in the excitement of being at the center of something new and important, and the status that accrues (if only in the micro-community that forms around such topics). In other words, the grandiose part of the ego runs the show… and yet I don't want to take away from the experiences of those who felt they were helped by these men or deny that they did provide help to some people.
 
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rosmarinus prostratus said:
While I don't think that Jacobs and Hopkins were deliberately setting out to do bad work, they did. Neither were trained in regression or spiritual psychology, and neither were neutral in the regression work they undertook.
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But maybe Jacobs was setting out to deceive people. That seems to be a main thrust of the UFO disinfo, that when it's admitted they exist, the spiritual is ignored and the potential "threat" is the focus
 
Forgive my somewhat circuitous intro to this comment but:

Over the past year I produced a podcast series on the evolution of the thought of David Icke. Essentially, I wanted to understand how he came to believe in shape-shifting reptilians. It became apparent to me that memories recovered through hypnosis played a massive role in forming his worldview. By extension, they play a massive role in conspiracy culture more generally.

Such is the extent of this role, I felt the need to produce spin off episodes specifically examining this question: Is there evidence that hypnosis can reliably be used to recover repressed memories? These could be memories of child abuse, Satanic cult abuse, alien abduction or involvement with the MKUltra program. The short answer (with a couple of caveats) is ‘no’, I don’t think there’s any evidence it can. Given the extent of efforts to validate ‘recovered memories’, the absence of evidence seems like evidence of absence. This is something memory experts (depending on how you define who they are) agree upon.

I did find evidence that at least a portion of people are susceptible to concocting vivid fantasies, which they then take to be reality. It seems to me that the boundary between fantasy and reality is more porous in some minds than others.

If this is the case (and I’m willing to be challenged on it), then what Mary Ruwart and her peers are doing is no more than collecting fantasies and presenting them as evidence for an intergalactic civilisation. This obviously has a moral dimension too, as if she’s wrong, as a therapist she’s causing chaos in her clients minds. I’d challenge anyone (Mary included) to disagree with that statement.

I appreciate that Mary, Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack all come across as highly intelligent and credible. I’m sure they all are. What I observe in this area, is that one or two small errors in the foundations cause perfectly intelligent people to spin off in wild directions.

Finally, nothing I’ve said contradicts the claim that aliens are here and actively abducting people. I’m not taking a position on this. I am only calling into question the use of hypnosis to recover memories of those abductions, or anything else.
 
Richard Cox said:
Forgive my somewhat circuitous intro to this comment but:

Over the past year I produced a podcast series on the evolution of the thought of David Icke. Essentially, I wanted to understand how he came to believe in shape-shifting reptilians. It became apparent to me that memories recovered through hypnosis played a massive role in forming his worldview. By extension, they play a massive role in conspiracy culture more generally.

Such is the extent of this role, I felt the need to produce spin off episodes specifically examining this question: Is there evidence that hypnosis can reliably be used to recover repressed memories? These could be memories of child abuse, Satanic cult abuse, alien abduction or involvement with the MKUltra program. The short answer (with a couple of caveats) is ‘no’, I don’t think there’s any evidence it can. Given the extent of efforts to validate ‘recovered memories’, the absence of evidence seems like evidence of absence. This is something memory experts (depending on how you define who they are) agree upon.

I did find evidence that at least a portion of people are susceptible to concocting vivid fantasies, which they then take to be reality. It seems to me that the boundary between fantasy and reality is more porous in some minds than others.

If this is the case (and I’m willing to be challenged on it), then what Mary Ruwart and her peers are doing is no more than collecting fantasies and presenting them as evidence for an intergalactic civilisation. This obviously has a moral dimension too, as if she’s wrong, as a therapist she’s causing chaos in her clients minds. I’d challenge anyone (Mary included) to disagree with that statement.

I appreciate that Mary, Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack all come across as highly intelligent and credible. I’m sure they all are. What I observe in this area, is that one or two small errors in the foundations cause perfectly intelligent people to spin off in wild directions.

Finally, nothing I’ve said contradicts the claim that aliens are here and actively abducting people. I’m not taking a position on this. I am only calling into question the use of hypnosis to recover memories of those abductions, or anything else.
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I will say, at least in his case, regarding John Mack, not all of his patients/clients retrieved their memories (or maybe fantasies) via hypnosis. Though what exactly these particular patients who came to him with “normal” memories had to say and how this lined up with or contradicted with his other patients “retrieved memories” I am unsure. It would be interesting to contrast and compare these narratives if the information required to do so was available. But I doubt that it is.

I’d say that, generally, I put more faith in channelled information a -la mediumship etc. then I do with hypnotic regression. I find Julie Beischels work convincing and have my own worldview changing reading with a medium that I had once. The details she knew about my brothers death 25 years ago was stunning. I couldn’t speak. And she didn’t know my name until we started talking. She nailed lots of other things. Details about my dead mother and best friend etc.
 
Richard Cox said:
Over the past year I produced a podcast series on the evolution of the thought of David Icke. Essentially, I wanted to understand how he came to believe in shape-shifting reptilians. It became apparent to me that memories recovered through hypnosis played a massive role in forming his worldview. By extension, they play a massive role in conspiracy culture more generally.
Click to expand...

But maybe David Icke is correct about reptilian aliens, in which case maybe his regressions are correct. It's interesting that the anthropologist Ardy Sixkiller Clarke reports reptilian aliens among American Indians' experiences for instance...
 
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