This excellent retort can be used to bring us to what might be better question about the veracity of Christianity than the best one currently being asked most often.
The best/simplest explanation of Christ Consciousness I can give would be: THE spirit of Unconditional Positive Regard existing on Earth.
Currently, people ask Was Christ a real person or not, God or not, Resurrected or not?, which seem to remain a dead end until we invent a time machine.
Perhaps a better question is "Did Christ Consciousness exist on earth before the time of Jesus?" According to Christianity, Jesus' spirit (Christ Consciousness) came to Earth when he was baptized and remained here after he died.
I think this gets to the issue a lot better.
One of Alex's main points especially in the Josephus debates is:
William Ramsey, Lawyering Christianity |497|
"The part of that history that I don’t understand that Christians don’t get is that we’re all living, rich, complicated, spiritual lives. And they show up all over the place for Damien Echols from West Memphis three. We don’t know what his deal is but we know he has a rich spiritual life and he’s trying to connect with Alistair Crowley and demons and this and that, but he probably is also waking up at two o’clock in the morning going, Oh my God you know, what does this do to my soul?"
My question which I'm posing here (I guess on behalf of Christianity) is Did the "Christ Consciousness"-Unconditional-Positive-Regard spiritual component exist within Men on Earth before Jesus lived?
These are all excellent points. I am happy to be on this dig with you. Let's address this, first:
"The best/simplest explanation of Christ Consciousness I can give would be: THE spirit of Unconditional Positive Regard existing on Earth."
Was Jesus truly a guy that had "unconditional positive regard," or was he tapping into "The Spirit" of unconditional, positive regard? The first point makes him unlike any of us, the second point means that any of us can become like him.
Segue into your other point: "Currently, people ask Was Christ a real person or not, God or not, Resurrected or not?, which seem to remain a dead end until we invent a time machine. Perhaps a better question is 'Did Christ Consciousness exist on earth before the time of Jesus? According to Christianity, Jesus' spirit (Christ Consciousness) came to Earth when he was baptized and remained here after he died. I think this gets to the issue a lot better."
I don't understand this, because we are made to believe that Jesus' "Christ Consciousness" came about when he was baptized, yet he was supposedly the son of a virgin, impregnated by God, at the same time? First of all, isn't this a kind of idolatry by God? This sounds more and more like the actions of government, and less and less like the actions of an all powerful, loving creator. In effect, it is a God that says, "Yeah, that is your wife, but I created everything, so I will take a piece of that action when I want it."
Also, shouldn't this mean "no baptism necessary"?!? Why would there be no "Christ Consciousness" before him? Does God need to create a world populated by complete assholes for a huge period of time, then suddenly introduce the non-asshole at the last hour? - Only to have the non-asshole killed off, for a few more thousand years of total assholes ruling the world? Also, you have to call yourself a sinning asshole and belief that people killed this perfect guy to save your eternal soul? Add whatever you want: churches bent on collecting money, priests fucking boys, dickheads like Antone LeVay profiting off of this fear mongering, kids being told to ruin their weekend with church on Sunday after 5 other days a week in a government institution, etc. Man, I don't have to know anything about Josephus to see this as a total psyop.
I don't think that Alex is right about everybody living rich, complicated, spiritual lives. Certainly, he does, and many of the people on this forum do! I think that having that perspective is a positive one that makes other human beings tolerable, no matter how deplorable they are, but it is not true. I think that the great majority of people lead selfish, petty, mask wearing lives. When these type of people come into leadership positions, usually inherited, they create this lie that all was achieved by things like "ruthless aggression"(Trump, Vince McMahon, etc.). In reality, they are psychopaths, and they love getting other psychopaths to play "king of the hill" as they stand back and watch. The funniest thing about this charade is that these rich idiots are spoiled, rotten kids that love to surround themselves with psychopaths that destroy the world. I think it is inner ineptitude that they feel, but it has been sublimated to the point of compulsive tyranny.
Did "Christ Consciousness" exist before Jesus lived? I think so, and I don't think you have to be a Christian to see this. I believe that any of us, at any point of time, has the capacity to be a kind, loving person, no matter what our religion is. Otherwise, we have to believe that a God, who created the rich myriad of existence, is solely focused on us forcing all our consciousness into one section of the world to understand Him. I think this is just as bad as believing all of us to be biological robots in a meaningless universe.