Richard Dolan, UFO Disclosure, Toothpaste Out of the Tube? |438|

[Alex]

Richard Dolan, UFO Disclosure, Toothpaste Out of the Tube? |438|
by Alex Tsakiris | Jan 21 | Consciousness Research, Others
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Richard Dolan on UFO disclosure, good versus bad ET, and the consciousness question.

photo by: Skeptiko
I have an interview coming up with UFO researcher, Richard Dolan. Here are some clips.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:06] We met with the guy at the DOD, but he’s a whistleblower. All the information he revealed, well none of it’s classified or top secret. The kid who innocently took a selfie and inside the submarine, he’s in prison, and this is the biggest thing ever, even though it happened 15 years ago.
Richard Dolan: [00:00:26] I wouldn’t say that Elizondo necessarily classifies as a whistleblower. I don’t know. I mean, all these people are self-serving. So, the folks at TTSA, it’s not like, you know, they’re all angels and they have no other ulterior motives, what they do.
(later)
Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:41] All of these guys who are in the military, that was their pledge. Are we at a different point where we’ve totally given up on the idea that we need to hold these people accountable? Is that just kind of out of the window?
Richard Dolan: [00:00:53] Oh man, good question. Well, we are in a post constitutional phase. I mean, look we’re in an upside-down world. I call this thing now a legal illegality, that’s really what it is. It’s like this legal framework to protect what fundamentally should be illegal in any democratic oriented society.
(later)
Richard Dolan: Consciousness clearly is important in some fundamental way to the nature of our reality. And secondly, we have an enormous hole in our general understanding of reality itself. Like there are things we don’t get. So in that hole are things like UFOs. In that hole are things like synchronicities and spirituality and definitely psychic phenomena, PSI phenomenon, absolutely fit in there.
[00:01:49] Stay with us for Skeptiko.

 

[Psiclops]

Great interview Alex.
Love the way you managed to break through the usual format to challenge Richard and was delighted that he took it all on the chin and strongly argued his case - all without rancor.
He must have felt comfortable to be able to tell of his flickering light experience publicly.
Lots more here to discuss and will probably come back after others have chimed in.
But please Alex, sort out your sound, Richard came through loud and clear but you sounded sometimes like you were underwater :-)

 

[Alex]

Great interview Alex.
Love the way you managed to break through the usual format to challenge Richard and was delighted that he took it all on the chin and strongly argued his case - all without rancor.
He must have felt comfortable to be able to tell of his flickering light experience publicly.
Lots more here to discuss and will probably come back after others have chimed in.
But please Alex, sort out your sound, Richard came through loud and clear but you sounded sometimes like you were underwater :)

yeah, I've switched mics after this interview. I had a good dynamic mic but there is something weird about the way zoom processes audio from that mic... very strange... didn't really believe it... but finally had to pull the plug :)

 

[Michael Patterson]

Only half way through this show, but had to commend you, Alex, on the best show of 2020 - and by that I mean you got your work cut out shading this one. Richard is a dream interviewee. The topic is on the money - and you are right about its import. Even half way through it's hard to know where to begin responding to the rich vein of provocative thoughts.

Here's a challenge to you to get the conversation going. What are your person 3 big takeaways from the conversation with Richard?

 

[David Bailey]

I nearly turned this podcast off - which would have been a big mistake - because the early discussion seemed just too "inside baseball". Alex, I do think it is important to make it clear who everyone is in such a discussion.

Unusually, Richard Dolan seemed to be genuinely struggling with the complexity of the issues.

It was interesting to hear him struggling with his own experience when his father died. I know nothing special happened at the moment when my father or mother died. It is hard to believe that what happened could become sort of fluke because of the tight association in time.

I must try out his podcasts.

David

 

[Alex]

Only half way through this show, but had to commend you, Alex, on the best show of 2020 - and by that I mean you got your work cut out shading this one. Richard is a dream interviewee. The topic is on the money - and you are right about its import. Even half way through it's hard to know where to begin responding to the rich vein of provocative thoughts.

Here's a challenge to you to get the conversation going. What are your person 3 big takeaways from the conversation with Richard?

thx for these kind words, Michael.

I think there are a lot of interesting angles here... Dolan is a deep thinker and I really take to heart his read of the psyop thing. I mean, maybe guys like hal puthoff really are White Hatter's moving us towards a better after disclosure world... but I'm not sure I can push my optimism meter that far :)

 

[Alex]

I nearly turned this podcast off - which would have been a big mistake - because the early discussion seemed just too "inside baseball". Alex, I do think it is important to make it clear who everyone is in such a discussion.

Unusually, Richard Dolan seemed to be genuinely struggling with the complexity of the issues.

It was interesting to hear him struggling with his own experience when his father died. I know nothing special happened at the moment when my father or mother died. It is hard to believe that what happened could become sort of fluke because of the tight association in time.

I must try out his podcasts.

David

I appreciate you hanging in there David. yeah, I always struggle with what's inside baseball.

 

[north]

" I am also aware that I still have a clearance and I don’t want the Pentagon taking any punitive measures to risk my clearance or our ongoing efforts regarding the CRADA. I had my clearance threatened early on and I don’t want that being used as leverage to keep me quiet, but it is a possibility that they could still and try to remove my clearance in order to try and further discredit me. "
https://www.theblackvault.com/docum...m-of-his-investigating-ufos-for-the-pentagon/

The world of "clearances" seems to greatly reduce potential for transparency and "truth".

National security seems to be blanket approval for illegal activities.

 

[Chester Hunter]

I spent all afternoon watching this interview and stopping here and there to take notes. I am just one hour in (4 hours later). I just witnessed Richard expressing how much he was enjoying the discussion and spontaneously said he was happy to go "as long as you want to go" (in consideration of Alex's time - always a gentleman... even apologized for "slipping" earlier for a "profanity"! Oh My!).

Then he said it... what I have been hoping to hear, wanting to hear, thinking it was true... That Richard held the view expressed by the following.

"Consciousness clearly is important in some fundamental way to the nature of our reality."

:)Big Smiley Face:)

 

[Alex]

I spent all afternoon watching this interview and stopping here and there to take notes. I am just one hour in (4 hours later). I just witnessed Richard expressing how much he was enjoying the discussion and spontaneously said he was happy to go "as long as you want to go" (in consideration of Alex's time - always a gentleman... even apologized for "slipping" earlier for a "profanity"! Oh My!).

Then he said it... what I have been hoping to hear, wanting to hear, thinking it was true... That Richard held the view expressed by the following.

"Consciousness clearly is important in some fundamental way to the nature of our reality."

:)Big Smiley Face:)

hi Sam... yeah, I think Richard deep interest in the mysteries of consciousness were a real highlight for me.

 

[Jimiskin]

I spent all afternoon watching this interview and stopping here and there to take notes. I am just one hour in (4 hours later). I just witnessed Richard expressing how much he was enjoying the discussion and spontaneously said he was happy to go "as long as you want to go" (in consideration of Alex's time - always a gentleman... even apologized for "slipping" earlier for a "profanity"! Oh My!).

Then he said it... what I have been hoping to hear, wanting to hear, thinking it was true... That Richard held the view expressed by the following.

"Consciousness clearly is important in some fundamental way to the nature of our reality."

:)Big Smiley Face:)

That indeed, is what it's all about, my friend.

 

[Michael Patterson]

thx for these kind words, Michael.

I think there are a lot of interesting angles here... Dolan is a deep thinker and I really take to heart his read of the psyop thing. I mean, maybe guys like hal puthoff really are White Hatter's moving us towards a better after disclosure world... but I'm not sure I can push my optimism meter that far :)

That's the thing I like about Dolan. He has a skeptical kind of mind. It seems to me evident that the whole ET/UFO thing is complex and maddeningly indefinable in any simple way. Dolan seems to get that, but sees some things as definite in terms of human response. I just finished Strieber's A New World - a challenging work - and I have just started Dolan's AD After Disclosure. Over the past week I watched the 1951 movie The Day The Earth Stood Still, and the 2008 remake.

In all this I am mindful of Dr Urban's reflection on the nature of religion in his book Scientology. His summation at the end is provocative - justly demanding we rethink what religion means to us an idea. Urban's 'hermeneutics of respect and hermeneutics of suspicion' strikes me as something Dolan would get - allowing something to be what it appears to be while doubting that is its true nature. I can't think of a better way approaching the whole UFO/ET theme. That is to say that there is utility in appearances [as they are to each of us], but none are an expression of the 'true nature'.

You remarked at the end that the toothpaste image struck you as important. Yeah. We can't unknow - there is no going back. ET won't cease to be the critical challenge to our normal - but he/she/it/they may transform into something else. Before harsh Christian theology napalmed our nature inner ecology humans engaged with a wide array of agents who possessed no essential physical form. So we do have to ask ourselves whether UFOs and ET represent the metaphorical expression of then old agents attended to an industrially conditioned mentality.

So of course the Military Industrial Complex plays with alien tech. We are in an age of what esotericists call 'Externalisation' - so the tech is no longer the magic of old. Now its the liminal expression of tech that straddles the material/immaterial boundary. As we need to redefine religion we also need to redefine magic.

Following this thread I am intrigued by the Disclosure narrative. In the distant past nobody would have presumed to demand the culture leaders 'disclose' their communion with gods. Two things were expected - we humans engaged with the invisible realms, and that our leaders would be in contact with them.

What we face is a struggle stemming from the materialist presumption that this contact is now anomalous, and hence threatening. The Day the Earth Stood Still movies reflect the shift of our sense of defence from spiritual to material. Hence the response to ET's arrival is dominated by the military - utterly unqualified, gross and idiotic reactions. The movie/s have a weak premise in an effort to drive a gross moral message. This is the point - the message is moral.

I am keen to explore Dolan's thinking more. I like the fact that he is an historian and brings that academic discipline to asking questions. But I see that approach has limitations and he is really another brand of toothpaste that can't be put back. I guess that's my point - the toothpaste is of many types and they are still all toothpaste.

Love it! Great show to the very end.

 

[Alex]

thx for another awesome post!

In all this I am mindful of Dr Urban's reflection on the nature of religion in his book Scientology. His summation at the end is provocative - justly demanding we rethink what religion means to us an idea.

good point, but it's really hard for me to get past urban's blind spots. as a follow-up to my interview with him I just interviewed a scientology survivor. someone who was born into the cult and served it for 25 years. we've all heard these stories before. They are tragic. equally tragic is what we are calling comparative religion departments and their inability to deal with extended consciousness and the associated malevolence that sometimes comes into play.

I know I keep hammering on this topic but I think it's been under-explored.

That is to say that there is utility in appearances [as they are to each of us], but none are an expression of the 'true nature'.

agree. I like the way eckhart tolle puts it, " let go of knowing." and I sense / experience that there's an unlimited amount to"know" thru unknowing :) at the same time there's a lot of misinformation / disinformation / lazy thinking... and I do feel motivated to get past that :-)

You remarked at the end that the toothpaste image struck you as important. Yeah. We can't unknow - there is no going back.

true. And I took it another way as well. dolan saying that toothpaste tube squeezing might actually be a strategy being employed by white-hat insiders.

So we do have to ask ourselves whether UFOs and ET represent the metaphorical expression of then old agents attended to an industrially conditioned mentality.

this is a tough one for me... Because I think it's probably close to the ultimate truth.

I mentioned that I've been pounding on the topic of evil a lot in recent interview. one of those with was with a woman named anneke lucas who was unbelievably / horribly / unthinkably sold to a Belgium sex cult at the age of 6 by her parents. what does this say about the nature of evil? What does it say about Christianity's "opposition " to the forces of evil? and what role is ET playing in this drama?

So of course the Military Industrial Complex plays with alien tech. We are in an age of what esotericists call 'Externalisation' - so the tech is no longer the magic of old.

lots to process there :) why has magic of so many indigenous cultures failed over and over? why did the good old-fashioned git-r-done colonialism of Francisco Pizarro so easily defeat the protector gods of peru?

 

[Chester Hunter]

hi Sam... yeah, I think Richard deep interest in the mysteries of consciousness were a real highlight for me.

Finally finished... started at noon yesterday and with a break here and there, got 2/3rds through and went to bed near 11 PM - and then weirdly, after having a lengthy, vivid/lucid dream featuring a monster that I knew was there but would not come out then shifting into an attempt to escape a from what I concluded in the dream was aliens to a scene where I was with a group of people where one of them put me on his shoulders while he walked towards a group of "phenomenon manifestations" where I perceived that they perceived I had some sort of special ability to communicate with them; note in this last scene, I concluded the individual manifestations were "not each the same type of other worldly being" and each were some form of light manifestation, plasma thing, neon construction, all with form and movement... and this happened at 2:55 AM whereby I tried to sleep but couldn't and went to my office and completed the interview (took 3 more hours).

Why so long? I take notes, write down comments, stop/start/go back/, etc. It's like there's a me that seems to be in Alex and in Richard and then an independent me that wants to say, YES or... well, I understand but have you thought about this and sometimes I wish so bad I was there so I could throw out a thought it seems neither have considered (yet). I literally have a good 12 pages of highlights, thoughts, comments and this is just my first run through (I always strive to go through three times before I feel I've completed a full listen).

OK - so if I had to pin down three things... I would feature what I already posted as my favorite single line and favorite "verification" that Richard was comfortable (as of now) with holding the assumption that consciousness is at least "a fundamental" of reality.

But the next one on my top three is when he is honest as to his bias with regards to what has become the pointer phrase, "nuts and bolts" experiences over anecdotal (only) experiences if we have to label each as one or the other. I have a lot to say about that later but the importance in pointing this out is when Richard expresses his reasons why. The one that stood out the most (besides the obvious one - evidence and/or multiple witnesses seeing and describing the same thing) is what he calls the "unbalanced" individual telling their story. Alex jumps on that with the consideration that perhaps their appearance of being unbalanced has been caused by their experience.

I have spent the last three years exploring this very thing and I have an excellent subject that has worked closely with me during my exploration. I assessed the subject prior to my study with regards to their memories. Are most quite detailed? Is the subject able to articulate their experiences with regards to these details but also with regards to what they thought about them as they occurred, later in their life, and how they think about it today.

I have required that the subject be fully open and completely honest. In fact, I worked with this very subject heavily beginning in 2010 whereby I made the subject write, write, write besides just speak with me for the thousands and thousands of hours all and only to achieve a goal that without, the study would bear no fruit and thus be pointless. True - as perfectly as an imperfect person can be honesty.

This effort has resulted in no answers. But I haven't been disappointed because of what the results have produced. I can place the results in one of two categories. Category A - The revealing of unrecognized assumptions, assumptions that impact my (and the subjects) primary world view but also the sub-assumptions held within my (and the subjects) overall world view. Category B is comprised of questions which never had I considered before and can understand why based on what my Category A "bucket" held prior to various breakthroughs... meaning the B bucket continues to grow and the A bucket continues to diminish.

And my conclusion is that it is the questions that are the drivers of everything new and expansive. Assumptions, if treated for exactly what they are, can be helpful... but the minute an assumption becomes "fact" for the individual explorer, the fact is that whether or not the assumption is, indeed, a fact, ones route of exploration becomes more defined and definition can (and IMO always does) produce limitation. Don't conclude I am saying limitation is "bad" - that is for each of us to decide and change our minds about on our own as "bad" is, for me, ultimately subjective. Don't conclude I see "good and bad ET" or "good versus evil" as the hard core non-dualist is often perceived so to do (or as was exampled by pointing to Grant Cameron and Steven Greer).

My way of viewing things is by locating the point of view I am viewing from at that specific moment and considering that point of view in relation to what I am observing and/or considering, especially when it is a thought exercise.

I am working on the project of presenting my own "study" in relation to all the above. Maybe I complete it and release it before this body dies. I hope so but who knows. One thing about the subject - s/he definitely traversed the land of "unbalanced" during her/his journey. What was inspiring is that there have been junctures in this individual's journey where they seemed to achieve certain milestones which resulted in a shift in their appearance... a shift from producing a clear unbalanced impression to a more balanced impression. Yet, interestingly, the subject continued to experience things I really found hard to believe. But I also had multiple experiences with the subject where I observed what my mind immediately determining, "that can't happen." Then to, "how could that happen?"

I am still at "how can that happen" question and thankfully the more I discover limiting sub-assumptions, the more I feel I am getting closer to the answer - not in some way I can write down as a formula, more in that space created by an allowance for "inner silence." (thank you Skeptiko #436 - Don Hoffman)

 

[lonevoice]

Alex, I am upset from watching the first two Dolan-Bledsoe YouTubes. I stopped investiating experiencer accounts years ago after doing massive research on ufology, an endless labyrinth yielding--at that point--diminishing returns. I only listened to the Dolan-Bledsoe YouTubes b/c of your bringing them up in your interview, b/c I so respect your views. My upset is this: Chris' stating that he believes ET created us, are in charge ot us, and the like. I really don't have time to listen to two more of these YouTubes to see if Dolan addresses this controversial claim. So would you please let us know if this wild (IMO) claim comes up again in their final two interviews --and what you make of it. Merci buckets! (P.S. I was crazy about your interview, just not Bledsoe's take on the power / role of ET).

 

[Michael Patterson]

lots to process there :) why has magic of so many indigenous cultures failed over and over? why did the good old-fashioned git-r-done colonialism of Francisco Pizarro so easily defeat the protector gods of peru?

Well crude and brutal power, heedless of moral law, will always hurt the gentle ways of doing things. The Spaniards went to plunder and brought stronger magic. Magic does not fail per se but it operates in a different condition. Its like the law which works well when folk abide by it and badly when they ignore it. Psi is shy, for example, which is why it doesn't show up for Spaniards in lab coats. Doesn't mean it ain't real or present.

 

[Michael Patterson]

true. And I took it another way as well. dolan saying that toothpaste tube squeezing might actually be a strategy being employed by white-hat insiders.

I think a bunch of other 'insiders' are jumping on the tube as well - maybe different motives - but going in the same direction.

 

[David Bailey]

Alex, I am quite upset from watching the first Dolan-Bledsoe YouTube. I stopped looking at experiencncer accounts years ago, as I had gotten my fill. I just listened to this one b/c of your bringing it up. My upset is this: Chris' stating that he believes ET created us, are in charge ot us, and the like. I really don't have time to listen to three more of these YouTubes to see if Dolan addresses this controversial claim (expecially because it seems to me Dolan asked for elaborations of the River experience that were already cyrstal clear--just taking up more of the viewers' time). So would would please let us know if this wild (IMO) claim comes up again and what you make of it. Merci buckets! (P.S. I was crazy about your interview, just not the YouTube).

Well of course, if you interview anyone, you have to let them say what they want to say. In any case, how does the interviewer address what his guest believes?

Having said that, I haven't listened to these interviews at all yet.

David

 

[Michael Patterson]

his is a tough one for me... Because I think it's probably close to the ultimate truth.

I mentioned that I've been pounding on the topic of evil a lot in recent interview. one of those with was with a woman named anneke lucas who was unbelievably / horribly / unthinkably sold to a Belgium sex cult at the age of 6 by her parents. what does this say about the nature of evil? What does it say about Christianity's "opposition " to the forces of evil? and what role is ET playing in this drama?

Agree this is a hard one. An agency out of place can be called evil because its interests are not aligned with the environment at all. Evil may not be a thing of itself but a radical mismatch - psychopathic parents for eg. How evil might humans be to native fauna when we exploit it? Does that make us inherently evil or only situationally so?

I am no fan of people who engage in catch and release fishing and who think they are superior to the catch and eat. To me traumatising a creature for one's own pleasure is getting close to evil - as a self-serving lack of moral empathy.

The trouble is we struggle to agree on a definition of evil, without it all we have is a spectrum of badness. In terms of our interests [such as we can define them] is ET on that spectrum - and to what range or degree? Defining our interests is a challenge - self-interest or as a member of a class or group?

Nothing is easy. Its all foggy and imprecise. Maybe that's the way it is naturally and we should apply inhabit a domain of constant ambiguity?

 

[lonevoice]

Well of course, if you interview anyone, you have to let them say what they want to say. In any case, how does the interviewer address what his guest believes?

Having said that, I haven't listened to these interviews at all yet.

David

Well that's part of my point--the interviewer did NOT address it. Please, David, let Alex address this as the question was addressed to him and he HAS listened to all four of the Dolan-Bledsoe interviews..