Rob and Trish Macgregor, Mystical Underground |558|
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Nelson
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If anyone has a tip on some other ufo encounter reports that appear reliable, then I'd really appreciate feedback!
I asked Marty Garza over at the Brothers of the Serpent discord forum some months ago, but he didn't want to hang his reputation on any one case. I can understand the reluctance; but if one is to really wrestle a topic to the ground, it's necessary to stick one's neck out by judging what one thinks are the most reliable accounts
I asked Marty Garza over at the Brothers of the Serpent discord forum some months ago, but he didn't want to hang his reputation on any one case. I can understand the reluctance; but if one is to really wrestle a topic to the ground, it's necessary to stick one's neck out by judging what one thinks are the most reliable accounts
Hurmanetar
New
A few thoughts:
We need to eliminate or redefine "real" and "illusion". "Is your experience real?" All perceptions are "real" in the sense that the experience happened, but what we want to know is: did the subjective perception provide information about an objective environment that was useful or could be useful in accomplishing a goal? The same with the meaningful or meaningless... there is only "meaning" in relation to accomplishing a goal.
The universe is only meaningless *to you* if you have no goal.
In my philosophy of Patternism, the universe - everything that exists, all structure - is a result of a nested set of entities attempting to achieve goals and in process making perceptions/decisions which are boundaries which form the structure... so since everything is a byproduct of attempts to achieve a goal, everything is in some sense meaningful to someone at some level of the nested entity structure. This is in direct contradiction to Harari and the materialist notion in general which doesn't allow for the universe to exist nested within the mind(s) of another entity or entities.
"Robot" is meant to imply mechanism which reliably repeats and/or acts in a deterministic manner and does not experience qualia. We are all composed partly of mechanisms, but there are fuzzy boundaries around the mechanisms where their deterministic causal chains dead end into the quantum soup of uncertainty (perhaps dipole bonds in microtubules or even just the threshold activation potential in neurons) and wherever a causal chain dead ends into the quantum soup, this is an opportunity for the entity at the next nested level above (call it the soul) to interact, to choose, to feel, etc.
So from our perspective there might be something like a consciousness field that is exerting influence or agency upon the mechanism at this fuzzy boundary.
In this case, all that we need for a "robot" to become conscious (aside from developing feedback loops in an environment - all the typical neural net stuff) is for the neural connections and their activation to get finer and finer until their causal chains dead end in the quantum soup of uncertainty.
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K9!
New
One other issue is that you don't know how many different agendas are represented by whatever people are experiencing. For instance, this podcast looks at the possibility of UFOs as future us, with different factions and agendas.
K9!
New
Trish was very quick to believe the MSM talking points on Climate Alarmism, which completely avoids looking at very real issues such as overdevelopment in coastal regions. It's one of those "follow the money" issues, because there is a lot of profit to be made from filling in swamps to build hotels. When the swamp start to become a swamp again or the water that would have filled in the swamp flows into someone's basement, blame climate change and no one is the wiser.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...rdevelopment-has-created-a-ticking-time-bomb/
Hurmanetar
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Rob and Trish Macgregor, Mystical Underground |558|
by Alex Tsakiris | Jun 28 | Skepticism
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Rob and Trish Macgregor have written over a hundred books and created the Mystical Underground podcast.
During the debate on Pizzagate, I obviously side with Alex on "what happened" and thought Alex did a good job of demonstrating an awareness of the facts and the guest's ignorance of the facts, but I am going to deduct 1/2 a point from Alex because the guest by asking "do you believe in Pizzagate, Alex" was actually asking if Alex believed Hillary was involved in a pedophile ring or occult practices... in other words, were the facts presented by Alex sufficient to convince Alex of the reality of Clinton's participation in such dark deeds... and I felt like Alex deflected and avoided providing a personal opinion on Clinton and preferred the safer position of pointing out the psyop aspect... that regardless of the reality behind it, the events affected political opinion a few days before the vote. What IS the reality behind it though?
Nelson
Member
About other UFO encounter reports that could be reliable, how about Travis Walton?
According to Alex in his interview with Rich Giordano, Alex no longer believes Walton is telling the truth. But what is the evidence for this?
From what I heard in the Skeptiko interview, I didn't find Giordano a reliable critic. He made sweeping, damning claims without enough nuance, and he says such things sometimes without even knowing the must-know sources sufficiently, such as the Bledsoes and Diana Pasalka
According to Alex in his interview with Rich Giordano, Alex no longer believes Walton is telling the truth. But what is the evidence for this?
From what I heard in the Skeptiko interview, I didn't find Giordano a reliable critic. He made sweeping, damning claims without enough nuance, and he says such things sometimes without even knowing the must-know sources sufficiently, such as the Bledsoes and Diana Pasalka
J Randall Murphy
New
The Ariel Phenomenon movie looks like it parallels what James Fox covered in his 2020 movie The Phenomenon. James travelled in-person to Zimbabwe, and the special version of his film includes extra content. Some of the clips even look like the same ones.
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J Randall Murphy
New
I'm with Marty — In the end, no case can be considered "reliable". They're all just more or less trustworthy than one another, and some have attached themselves to believers who see them as trustworthy even when they're not e.g. the Sitgreaves National Forest incident, Eduard Meier, and Claude Vorilhon. Perhaps more importantly, even if the experiencer is relaying things truthfully in their mind, that doesn't mean that their subjective interpretation matches objective reality, or that the info imparted by the aliens is true.
Nelson
Member
Cool trailer, thanks! At this stage -- in the year 2022 -- there's such a wealth of high-profile clips admitting there's an alien presence. And yet...
The anticipated reaction from the majority of the public isn't dramatic (as Richard Dolan and other ufology luminaries logically predicted), but stunningly muted. Surreal even. Is it because most people are so jaded about the trustworthiness of the msm? (I think not. Look how many continued to support Lockdown and got the jab)...
Rather, I think it could show how many are in a deep derp state, that not even the high profile disclosure about one of the biggest existential questions hasn't brought that many people out of their narrow paradigm
Nelson
Member
I THOROUGHLY disagree with that. That's almost like being a judge in a law court saying that every case is "more or less trustworthy than one another". No, no, no. One can use discernment, to judge the reliability of a case: material evidence, number of witnesses, reliability of those witnesses' character, potential biases, cui bono?
David Bailey
Member
To me the PizzaGate idea seemed preposterous until I saw the exchange of emails about how many pizzas to buy and what flavours.
This was between high up officials in the Clinton team. From my limited experience of US catering I know that it just doesn't work like that. Guests are presented with a huge buffet of possible things to eat, and they graze what they want. The vast majority of the food then gets sent away for disposal. It is disgusting really.
Those emails had to be written in some sort of code.
David
This was between high up officials in the Clinton team. From my limited experience of US catering I know that it just doesn't work like that. Guests are presented with a huge buffet of possible things to eat, and they graze what they want. The vast majority of the food then gets sent away for disposal. It is disgusting really.
Those emails had to be written in some sort of code.
David
J Randall Murphy
New
I don't know of any case that includes verifiable scientifically valid material evidence that definitively proves alien visitation is a reality. There are a number of stories and claims and trace evidence, but none of that is the same thing. After that, reliability hinges on the reliability of the experiencer, and even if we assume that they're honest, they're all subject to the possibility of misinterpretation or misidentification.
That doesn't mean I personally think all cases are fabrications, misinterpretations or misidentifications, but what we're left with doesn't give us sufficient reason to completely eliminate those possibilities either — hence all cases are more or less reliable that than others, while none ( at least in the public domain ) are definitive.
Please note here that I am a believer in alien visitation, and I only say the above because if I fail to acknowledge the truth of the above, it would also show my judgment to be clouded by personal bias. So why then do I believe alien visitation is a reality? It's not because of any one case. It's the preponderance of seemingly good quality cases combined with my own experiences ( which I can't provide material evidence for either ).
In the end, the best case for material evidence at our disposal are the experiencers themselves. However that requires us to acknowledge that we humans are material beings, and that changes to our memory are the result of material processes that can be quantified as "reliable" in some objective manner. I believe a good case can be made for that — but it tends to upset the new agey space brother believers who see aliens and humans as spirit beings.
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Steve
Member
It’s entirely possible that you’re/we‘re seeing it from a limited perspective. I can see children complaining about responsible adults in a similar light.
Is it really cruel to ‘kill’ cows a certain way? What if it is to benefit us somehow and death is not real death? Maybe the cows feel nothing and go through a bovine death experience? Is a child suffering trauma from being one of those cast out in a way because no-one believed their story really reason enough to not warn us? I for one really hope they‘re advanced enough to balance up the suffering that they may cause a few individuals against any good reason for doing so. Woke aliens would really piss me off! :)
The act of arriving on earth involves suffering - suffering is part of living, at least on earth. I reckon a big part of us being here is somehow coming to accept that and dealing gracefully & wisely with whatever our particular hand might be.
I feel we ought to be less…
While knowing we are more…
The former is stronger with me.
Robbedigital
New
I place a lot of value when I see set-minded people display efforts see outside their box. Even if they close it right back again. I require myself to do the same. I run a little experiment probably once every 3-6 month in which I'll think just for like 10 minutes about something like "what if Hilary Clinton is actually on the side of the angels?". Not an easy experiment to run, but it lets me know that I'd be able to accept it in the event that something I perceived as so ridiculous was revealed to me as factual.
David Bailey
Member
That sounds too complicated for me to get my head round.
However, candidate Hillary was friends with the artist Marina Abbramovic. Her website has changed a lot, but back then she showed really unbearable scenes of simulated slaughter - all done with pigs' blood and live people (mainly young women). It was awful to think of anyone watching that and also having their finger on the nuclear button.
Those same PizzaGate emails also discussed that they were going to have dinner during a performance of her work.
David
Robbedigital
New
As silly as that might have felt to explore this, I believe it to be huge.
1. You fully engaged outside of your box.
2. You tapped into inspiration (again, TNG did not cover this. this is new territory, silly as it may sound).
3. You covered multiple variables.
4. (An Aside) The fact alone that we both know this would make a great episode raises other questions (maybe for later)
5. At-least-some obvious progress made toward demystifying the concepts of spirit and higher-self.
In actuality it may take me weeks to propose a valid next step to this inquiry, but you'll be the first to read it.
Again, excellent work and thanks for digging in.
J Randall Murphy
New
COVID did hit right when James Fox's film was set to be released in theatres — theatres that were then closed due to the MSM hype helping to cause an overreaction to the pandemic by the public in order to push lockdowns and mass vaccinations.
Following that, COVID dominated the MSM and many peoples lives for two solid years. The fallout from COVID management on people's real lives became much more important to me than UFOs — so much so that I quit a popular radio-show/podcast over a disagreement with the producer on vaccine mandates.
UFOs still interest me, but only peripherally. The slide of our own world into authoritarianism at the hands of a technocratic plutocracy is far more important ( to me ). So many people are still messed-up by it that I feel it deserves more of my attention these days. But that is a whole other rant.
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