The Donald Trump Thread

Hey I'm no Clinton fan, some of the things she has done are so corrupt and wrong that I can't believe how well she's doing. The only acceptable candidates are Sanders and Jill Stein.

So if it is between Trump and Hitlery, would you vote for the guy who wants to work with Russia to destroy ISIS or the one who created ISIS and wants to start WWIII so the Zionists can rule the radioactive remains of the ash-heap that will be the world?
 
Sorry, but when he couldn't even disassociate himself from David Duke's endorsement he revealed himself as having absolutely no shame, no scrubles, no substance. No doubt he is purposefully plugged into some basic anger and fear in American society, and I'll grant you that maybe that does reflect his true identity but why, again, would I vote for that?

I'm copying and pasting what I just said in response to Sci:

David Duke's endorsement means nothing. Will Quigg, the KKK grand dragon in Cali recently endorsed Hillary. Is she going to be asked dozens of times to disavow that?

In 2000 Trump left the Reform party because of David Duke calling him a “a bigot, a racist, a problem.”

The establishment has no racist dirt on Donald so they invented it. In the interview where he supposedly hesitated or equivocated on disavowing Duke and the KKK, he was set up. Trump said after the interview they were messing with the sound in his earpiece and that he didn't know what groups they were talking about and that he wanted to know what "groups" they were referring to before disavowing them. He disavowed Duke and the KKK over a dozen times. The media, establishment politicians, and Soros funded groups like BLM are shamelessly race baiting and stirring up racial tensions in this country. Trump is not doing that.
 
David Duke's endorsement means nothing. Will Quigg, the KKK grand dragon in Cali recently endorsed Hillary. Is she going to be asked 15 times to disavow that?

In 2000 Trump left the Reform party because of David Duke calling him a “a bigot, a racist, a problem.”

The establishment has no racist dirt on Donald so they invented it. In the interview where he supposedly hesitated or equivocated on disavowing Duke and the KKK, he was set up. Trump said after the interview they were messing with the sound in his earpiece and that he didn't know what groups they were talking about and that he wanted to know what "groups" they were referring to before disavowing them. He disavowed Duke and the KKK over a dozen times. The media, establishment politicians, and Soros funded groups like BLM are shamelessly race baiting and stirring up racial tensions in this country. Trump is not doing that.
:)

But Trump clearly knows who David Duke is and what Duke represents. How difficult can it be then for him to give a straight response rather than this one that he did give:
CNN's Jake Tapper asked Trump to "unequivocally condemn" Duke. Trump replied: " Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke. OK? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know. I don't know, did he endorse me or what's going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about."

Really? "talking about people that I know nothing about" Is he lying? Is he that ambivalent about it? Did he have to consider all the angles first? I don't get it.
 
No they aren't. This narrative has been fabricated by the media based on nothing but one of 14 or more disavowals of racism in which during the one in question they were messing with his earpiece.



I haven't heard any but perhaps I missed something. Can you quote a few?



Such as...?

You shouldn't assume that everyone who views Trump negatively is buying into a media 'narrative'. I make my judgements based on what I've actually heard him say.

Well there's a lot to choose from, but calling Mexicans rapists, black people lazy, and calling for a complete ban on Muslims entering the USA are racist and prejudiced things to say and advocate, whether you want to accept it or not:


http://www.politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/


20% of Trump supporters think outlawing slavery was a bad idea, a third agree with Japanese internment, and a third want to ban gays and lesbians from entering the country:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/2...supporters-for-intolerance.html?referer=&_r=0
 
Problem for Trump is that Hillary has more support than Trump. By some polls even Sanders can beat Trump in a general election . Assuming Trump is the GOP nominee, he will have to tack back hard to the current center-right, moderate his stance by walking back his extreme positions and soften his public persona - he will loose votes by doing so and won't be able to win over any Hillary voters to replace the ones he's lost.

Sanders beats Trump by bigger margins then Clinton does!
 
Yes there have been some awful terror attacks by Muslims, I'm not pretending otherwise. But those attacks shouldn't be used to stereotype and be prejudiced against a large group of people. And the west have killed many, many more times more Muslims in recent years and I think we should remember that disturbing fact.

When there is a large group of people that hold the view, the stereotype is valid. I agree that Muslim antagonism towards the West has more to do with blowback from our abysmal murderous foreign policy, but fundamentalist Islam has scriptures to fall back on that clearly promote violence against unbelievers as well as misogyny and abuse.

Islam needs to "disavow" all of these awful scriptures and doctrines and have a reformation if it is going to be a valid religion for the future.

In terms of America, there's plenty of white Christians shooting Muslims, shooting black people, or just shooting people in general. Yet nobody makes such generalisation about them

Take a look at the statistics.

- so with some people I think there is a race element here and they may not realise it

Do you think I'm subconsciously racist?

I don't buy that this angry billionaire cares about ordinary people,

He is famous for helping ordinary people - randomly paying off their mortgages and such. His butler of over 20 years had only nice things to say about him. People who know him say he is truly a caring and nice person and not all the bluster and bravado he presents during the campaign.

he doesn't seem interested in raising their wages for example.

Raising the minimum wage does not improve the standard of living. In many cases it puts people out of work altogether. Centrally planned economics is what we've got right now and we're on the verge of the biggest financial implosion the world has ever seen and things are about to get really really bad for a lot of people because of it. We don't need more manipulated markets. We need less. Raising the minimum wage is just more market manipulation.

You can do a lot more for minimum wage workers by bringing jobs back from overseas by reducing taxes and letting the free markets work. We don't have free markets anymore. They're all completely rigged.

Sanders is against all the wars and the trade deals and selling jobs abroad - but he isn't scapegoating people of certain religions, backgrounds, ethnicities and immigrants in general.

The Donald has not scapegoated these groups. He has gone straight to the heart of the beast and criticized the banks, monetary manipulation, and corporate control of the government. Nobody who wants to live messes with their monetary policy. He did it.

A nation has to have borders. Without borders its not a nation. Without cell walls a cell is not a cell. Without doors, your house is not a house - or it won't be for long. He is simply proposing we revoke the stand down order Obama has issued to the Border patrol and ICE that prevents them from doing their job and following the laws.

There has been many cases in history where U.S. immigration was temporarily halted and immigrants were screened.

I looked into moving to New Zealand a few years back because it became obvious to me things are going to get really really bad here in the States. You know you can't immigrate to New Zealand without racking up a hundred or so points and you earn points by having certain levels of education or age or experience... in other words they only want the best kind of people coming in there. And if you want a strong powerful nation you have to be discriminating on who comes in. Are they racist? Xenophobic? No. Smart? Yes.

I went to Toronto a year ago to do some warranty repair work on one of our products. I told the customs agent I was there to do some work one of our products... they diverted me off to an area and questioned me for half an hour making me produce emails and all sorts of documentation to prove that I was there to do warranty work on a temporary basis and not there to stay.

All nations have borders! All nations deport illegal immigrants! (well except now European nations because they are on the same globalist plan as the U.S. which is to castrate the nation-state to make room for centralized global government)
 
Look - we can't - we should not have gone to Iraq - in fact Donald Trump described this as the worst mistake in US history! I myself was on the demonstrations in London objecting to that war.
But if someone has enraged a tiger, you don't invite it into your house! However, I think that tiger was already enraged to some extent. The fundamental mistake was to assume that if Saddam Hussein was removed - or Assad, or the Taleban - everyone would heave a sigh of relief and start debating their new democratic constitution! These leaders - brutal as they are - hold down violent passions that the West can barely understand.


It is also worth remembering that a lot of Muslim violence is against other Muslims - think back to the times when Catholics burned Protestants and Protestants burned Catholics (or indeed to the NI troubles) for an analogy.

Would you really say that the West should atone for the sins of Bush and Blair by lining up our people to be slaughtered by angry Islamists? Even though our leaders made those ghastly crimes, we aren't going help anything by allowing that cultural madness to infect the relatively peaceful West.

Meanwhile other potential leaders, like Clinton or Cruz would happily continue with a game of teasing the Russians - a game that could so easily go wrong and kill many more people than all the wars in the Middle East! I mean, I would like to see a fundamental change in politics, so that it was focussed first and foremost domestically on the needs of the people, not on messing about destabilising places about we really know almost nothing.

When Donald Trump says no more Muslim immigration until we understand why they hate us, I am right behind him. That hits the nail on the head. I imagine many of the Muslim families that came to Britain in the early days, knew it wasn't a Muslim country, but part of their motivation for coming was to escape the extremism in their home countries. What they have found howevever, was a culture that didn't understand them at all and told them to organise themselves as they saw fit - including setting up their own schools. This meant that the extremists could get to work and poison hearts and minds of Muslims in the West so that their children and grandchildren ended up being recruited by ISIS - in some cases to blow themselves up to destroy other Muslims! Because our multiculturalism has become so permissive, we have utterly failed to inculcate our own tolerance and Western values into those who have come here. That is why we see extremism, intolerance of gays, repression of women and repeated outbreaks of sexual violence towards children in our major cities (Rotherham and many other cities).


And they don't stand a chance!

David

Well said! ;;/? :D
 
When there is a large group of people that hold the view, the stereotype is valid. I agree that Muslim antagonism towards the West has more to do with blowback from our abysmal murderous foreign policy, but fundamentalist Islam has scriptures to fall back on that clearly promote violence against unbelievers as well as misogyny and abuse.

Islam needs to "disavow" all of these awful scriptures and doctrines and have a reformation if it is going to be a valid religion for the future.



Take a look at the statistics.



Do you think I'm subconsciously racist?



He is famous for helping ordinary people - randomly paying off their mortgages and such. His butler of over 20 years had only nice things to say about him. People who know him say he is truly a caring and nice person and not all the bluster and bravado he presents during the campaign.



Raising the minimum wage does not improve the standard of living. In many cases it puts people out of work altogether. Centrally planned economics is what we've got right now and we're on the verge of the biggest financial implosion the world has ever seen and things are about to get really really bad for a lot of people because of it. We don't need more manipulated markets. We need less. Raising the minimum wage is just more market manipulation.

You can do a lot more for minimum wage workers by bringing jobs back from overseas by reducing taxes and letting the free markets work. We don't have free markets anymore. They're all completely rigged.



The Donald has not scapegoated these groups. He has gone straight to the heart of the beast and criticized the banks, monetary manipulation, and corporate control of the government. Nobody who wants to live messes with their monetary policy. He did it.

A nation has to have borders. Without borders its not a nation. Without cell walls a cell is not a cell. Without doors, your house is not a house - or it won't be for long. He is simply proposing we revoke the stand down order Obama has issued to the Border patrol and ICE that prevents them from doing their job and following the laws.

There has been many cases in history where U.S. immigration was temporarily halted and immigrants were screened.

I looked into moving to New Zealand a few years back because it became obvious to me things are going to get really really bad here in the States. You know you can't immigrate to New Zealand without racking up a hundred or so points and you earn points by having certain levels of education or age or experience... in other words they only want the best kind of people coming in there. And if you want a strong powerful nation you have to be discriminating on who comes in. Are they racist? Xenophobic? No. Smart? Yes.

I went to Toronto a year ago to do some warranty repair work on one of our products. I told the customs agent I was there to do some work one of our products... they diverted me off to an area and questioned me for half an hour making me produce emails and all sorts of documentation to prove that I was there to do warranty work on a temporary basis and not there to stay.

All nations have borders! All nations deport illegal immigrants! (well except now European nations because they are on the same globalist plan as the U.S. which is to castrate the nation-state to make room for centralized global government)

Not it's not, stop trying to justify your prejudice toward Muslims. And it's pretty much mainly to do with or actions in the West, and the Q'ran has peaceful parts and violent parts, just like the Bible. Again it's unfair to single out Islam, the West have again, killed far more people and have often been lead by Christian Fundamentalists such as Bush.

I have looked at the statistics.

I have no idea, I don't know you. But I am seeing a recurring theme where people hold prejudiced views but don't like to think that they're prejudiced. Again, not saying that's you, I don't know you.

Plenty of people have bad things to say about him - I'm judging him on his campaign and what he's said. He's seen over here in the UK as a laughing stock but we're also partly horrified that he can say such horrible things and nice people like yourself will not only support him, but will go out of their way to defend him.

Yes it does, the minimum wage has worked our well here and countries with higher minimum wages tend to have higher standards of living.

That's a point of view, reducing taxes and 'freeing up the markets' doesn't seem to work wherever it's been done. I agree in our countries that things work in favour of the rich, the power and large corporations. I think Capitalism and Materialism is the main underlying problem personally and that's what really needs to change.

Yes he has scapegoated, in my other comments I've highlighted some pretty terrible things he's said. Do the decent thing and just acknowledge he's said some bad stuff instead of trying to explain it all away.

Nah, he wants to 'build a wall and make Mexico pay for it' - it's nonsense. When has building a wall between countries ever worked out well? It's like we don't learn from our history. We need to stop finding ways to divide and separate from each other and stop defining ourselves by the bit of land we were born on with artificial borders.

I don't think that because immigration has been halted before means it should be done again. Why is immigration such a big issue to you anyway? You commented about without doors your house won't be a house for long - it seems like fear seems to be behind many of your political views. Fear is a bad emotion and it clouds our mind and judgement. It at times has completely ruined my life and continues to in some ways.

I don't feel like entertaining conspiracy/Zionism type views. If you hold them whatever but I'm not interested in debating them with you sorry.
 
No it doesn't, and I'm skeptical of the term 'the left'. You don't need someone to tell you that Trump is anti-Muslim and prejudiced, you just have to listen to what he says. It's nothing to do with 'political correctness' either - he is just saying hateful things and I'm worried about how many people here agree with him and I'm going to challenge you and call you out on it.

Okay, give me some specific racist or bigoted statements he has made and I will happily disavow them.

Prejudice is not always bad... if I see some poison ivy on the ground I'm going to avoid it even if the trees call me xenophobic. Because I know something about the poison ivy - its characteristics and qualities, I can make a pre-judgement about whether or not to go near it.

I have prejudice against Islam because it needs reforming! It contains some horrible elements which need to be cut out of it. I had a Muslim friend...(lost touch now) and I had no problem setting aside my prejudice for friendly conversations in which I expressed curiosity and not judgment about the religion. I read the Koran to try to understand the viewpoint. I found some of it to be fine good stuff. It is basically like the Old Testament with some more extreme violent statements and commandments thrown in.

In every religion there are mystics, followers, leaders, and fundamentalists. The mystics seek the deeper truths and no doubt Islam has produced many of them (the Sufis and the Baha'i). The followers are average people who just want to get on with their lives but are driven to radical animosity when their towns and families are destroyed by Predator drones. The leaders (House of Saud for example) want to use the religion to control or gain power. The fundamentalists (Wahabists) go back to the scriptures or doctrines based on the scriptures and drive expansion or schism or reform. The problem with Islam is that when the fundamentalists and leaders merge and the people are disenfranchised and attacked, they have scriptures to selectively apply thereby justifying atrocious behavior.

The Zionist controlled West has used this quality of Islam to turn its adherents into a weapon - first used against Russia in the cold war - and then used against its own people - and then used against us to justify the expanding police state and projection of hegemony.

I think Muslims can live together with us in peace, but the religion does need reforming and it will happen (is already happening) unless the West continues to create division and support the radical fundamentalists.
 
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I think Trump himself has gone past the post in his call for banning all Muslims as well as suggested a vast number of undocumented migrants are rapists.

He called for a temporary ban on Muslim immigrants "until Congress can figure out what the hell is going on."

Also... they are not "migrants". The propagandistic media is very Orwellian in its efforts to morph our language - thereby limiting the ability to argue or maintain critical thought. Migrants are people who travel from place to place working seasonal jobs or other short term type jobs. Immigrants are people who permanently leave their country of origin and move to another country.

There are criminals coming in through the open borders. Many border agents have talked about this. There have been many cases of killings and rapes by illegal immigrants. Criminals running from justice often run to a different country and hope they won't be found out and deported. Now that the U.S. has promised not to vet or deport any of them, it is open season on fleeing to the U.S. from justice (or from the cartels).

However, expressing some concern about a particular religion and its association with violence to me isn't just a matter of simple prejudice...though I do think the idea that Islam is intrinsically some kind of evil cult is unsubstantiated. There are probably negative elements to any ideology or faith - for example I myself have criticized some of the ideas related to Hinduism quite a few times on this forum.

Agreed.

Similarly, the rhetoric Trump uses is extreme but wanting secure borders isn't, in and of itself, racist. I do think there is a bit of amusement in painting undocumented migrants as "illegal immigrants" committing some great evil when Native Americans might similarly condemn just about everyone living in the US now. So I don't have any moral animosity, but practically speaking there are limits to how many unprocessed persons a country can realistically absorb.

Mostly Agreed. I don't think we need to be guilt tripped or pay for the sins against the natives 4 or 10 generations removed.
 
Problem for Trump is that Hillary has more support than Trump. By some polls even Sanders can beat Trump in a general election . Assuming Trump is the GOP nominee, he will have to tack back hard to the current center-right, moderate his stance by walking back his extreme positions and soften his public persona - he will loose votes by doing so and won't be able to win over any Hillary voters to replace the ones he's lost.

By all polls except for FOX's polls Hillary is ahead, but I don't trust any of them. They lie about everything. I don't trust FOX either by the way. Trump is drawing massive support from every group including Democrats and I just don't think Hillary has any chance against Trump (edit: assuming the election were fair and fraud free which is a huge assumption).
 
When Donald Trump says no more Muslim immigration until we understand why they hate us, I am right behind him. That hits the nail on the head.

Really? Read this piece. It doesn't even as far as the Gulf wars!

"centuries many Christians and Jews converted to Islam. That Islam forcibly converted them is a myth; actually, the Islamic states were keen that the conquered peoples remain non-Muslim because that status required them to pay an extra tax.

As Persian Zoroastrians converted, they continued to stress their non-Arab identity by a distinctive interpretation of Islam, Shiism. The development of Shiism within Islam, like Protestantism within Christianity, is complex but in part both were determined by ethnicity. The bitter relationships between Sunnism and Shiism today are reminiscent of the religious wars in early modern Europe. (And, as poorer Hindus converted to Islam, they escaped the tyranny of the caste system, exchanging the virtual slavery of being an “untouchable” (achuta or dalit) for the “brotherhood” (ikhwaniya) that is one of the most attractive aspects of Islam.) Historically, Islam has been the most tolerant of the three religions."

William R. Polk is a veteran foreign policy consultant, author and professor who taught Middle Eastern studies at Harvard. President John F. Kennedy appointed Polk to the State Department’s Policy Planning Council where he served during the Cuban Missile Crisis. His books include: Violent Politics: Insurgency and Terrorism; Understanding Iraq; Understanding Iran; Personal History: Living in Interesting Times; Distant Thunder: Reflections on the Dangers of Our Times; and Humpty Dumpty: The Fate of Regime Change.



https://consortiumnews.com/2015/08/05/why-many-muslims-hate-the-west/

 
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But Trump clearly knows who David Duke is and what Duke represents. How difficult can it be then for him to give a straight response rather than this one that he did give:

CNN's Jake Tapper asked Trump to "unequivocally condemn" Duke. Trump replied: " Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke. OK? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know. I don't know, did he endorse me or what's going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about."

Really? "talking about people that I know nothing about" Is he lying? Is he that ambivalent about it? Did he have to consider all the angles first? I don't get it.

I don't know if you're in a relationship or not but... my girlfriend has a way of remembering things I said 4 years ago and I don't have a clue... sometimes it takes me a few minutes or even a day or two to remember the situation and why I said what I said.

It is very easy for me to understand how someone who is a very busy person and pays no attention to white supremacists would forget who a nobody like David Duke is even though Trump called him a racist bigot 16 years ago.
 
By all polls except for FOX's polls Hillary is ahead, but I don't trust any of them. They lie about everything. I don't trust FOX either by the way. Trump is drawing massive support from every group including Democrats and I just don't think Hillary has any chance against Trump (edit: assuming the election were fair and fraud free which is a huge assumption).

"Trump is drawing massive support from every group inluding Democrats.." And we know this because of what, polls? But you just said prior to that statement, this statement: "I don't trust any of them"?
 
But if someone has enraged a tiger, you don't invite it into your house! However, I think that tiger was already enraged to some extent. The fundamental mistake was to assume that if Saddam Hussein was removed - or Assad, or the Taleban - everyone would heave a sigh of relief and start debating their new democratic constitution! These leaders - brutal as they are - hold down violent passions that the West can barely understand.

That someone would be US!

Would you really say that the West should atone for the sins of Bush and Blair by lining up our people to be slaughtered by angry Islamists? Even though our leaders made those ghastly crimes, we aren't going help anything by allowing that cultural madness to infect the relatively peaceful West.

You can't blame Bush and Blair - they were elected by us. Among the immigrants you don't seem prepared to separate the terrorists from ordinary people. So why should you expect them to say, " No, it wasn't their fault, it's the fault of their leaders." I'm afraid that this is just more hypocrisy.

The relatively peaceful west? It certainly doesn't look that way if you're outside 'the relatively peaceful west!

Meanwhile other potential leaders, like Clinton or Cruz would happily continue with a game of teasing the Russians - a game that could so easily go wrong and kill many more people than all the wars in the Middle East! I mean, I would like to see a fundamental change in politics, so that it was focussed first and foremost domestically on the needs of the people, not on messing about destabilising places about we really know almost nothing.

I largely agree with you here? I don't know which one would be more dangerous for the world? Clinton or Trump. It says a lot that the US may have come to point where this is the choice they have. Something's wrong!
 
I don't know if you're in a relationship or not but... my girlfriend has a way of remembering things I said 4 years ago and I don't have a clue... sometimes it takes me a few minutes or even a day or two to remember the situation and why I said what I said.

It is very easy for me to understand how someone who is a very busy person and pays no attention to white supremacists would forget who a nobody like David Duke is even though Trump called him a racist bigot 16 years ago.

I don't know Hurmanetar, Trump seems to get a pass on everything. I mean I can just as easily assert that Trump will most certainly remember things he said 4 years ago, because I can remember things I've said and done from way back further than 4 years ago.

Despite what he said Sunday, Trump apparently did know Duke in 2000 -- citing him, as well as Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani -- in a statement that year explaining why he had decided to end his brief flirtation with a Reform Party presidential campaign.
"The Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep," Trump said in a statement reported then by The New York Times.

To Trumps credit even.

No I rather think his calculation was more along the lines of "I'm going for the white angst voter demographic, will disavowing Duke now hurt or help me, gotta check with my campaign team first"
 
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There's not much point arguing to and fro here on the forum David, we're unlikely to change any opinions. I am not blind to problems in integrating communities, but I don't see this as weighing heavily on Islam's shoulders alone. As I have said here many times before, it requires empathy. Unfortunately I don't think we are ready to give up anything at all to facilitate this vision.

Fwiw I'd be voting for Bernie. He's similar to 'our' Corbyn but on steroids.
 
Not it's not...

Just to be clear (because when I read my statement again it didn't make sense)... I'm not saying because a lot of people hold a stereotype, the stereotype is valid... I'm saying if a lot (not even a majority - just a lot) of Muslims want to wage a Jihad against us, then the stereotype is valid. Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam agreed with this! He agreed it is wise to vet Muslims coming from the nations that we have wrecked because a lot of them do want to attack us.

the Q'ran has peaceful parts and violent parts, just like the Bible.

I can come up with some very serious criticisms of the Bible too and it has been used to justify atrocities as well. Christianity was to a certain extent a very positive reformation of Judaism. And it has been reformed again and again over the centuries. It still needs reform. I've considered going back into Christian circles to be a reformer... just not sure that is my place right now.

But we're talking about Islam and Islam does have a lot more statements in the text of the Koran relative to the Bible that can be used by fundamentalists to justify atrocious behavior. The New Testament has a lot of pacifist statements and so Christianity was mobilized for war not by fundamentalists citing scripture but by the Catholic church which kept the scriptures hidden from the masses.

Again it's unfair to single out Islam,

Islam and its middle Eastern adherents, as I said in another post has been used by the West as a weapon and method of control. Radical Islam is to a certain extent manufactured by the West. We created the Taliban. We support the House of Saud. We wrote Jihadist text books and gave them weapons and training to fight the soviets and later us.

There are certain scriptures in Islam which make its adherents more easily manipulated by fundamentalists and which justify horrible treatment of women.

Western media has waged a campaign to make Islam seem cool and trendy and equal to any other world religion, but it is not cool to abuse women or kill people who decide they no longer want to be Muslims.

West have again, killed far more people and have often been lead by Christian Fundamentalists such as Bush.

Hey I'm with you there. But Slick Willy and Hitlery are just as guilty as Bush and Obama. Libya? Syria? Serbia? Kosovo? Sudan? They are front men for a globalist crime syndicate.

I have no idea, I don't know you.

I had a house mate and best friend for several years who was black. :)

Oh also had two Hispanic housemates.

For about 8 months I attended a small black-only church on the South Side (impoverished side) of town because I felt like they were the only ones around preachin' the truth. They were sweet people. They loved me and I loved them.

Believe me, I'm not racist. :)

But I am seeing a recurring theme where people hold prejudiced views but don't like to think that they're prejudiced.

Or maybe you misunderstand their views? Or maybe you don't think any sort of stereotype is justifiable? Holding some stereotypes is fine (in fact it is inevitable - we are designed to recognize patterns) as long as we are able to lay them aside for individuals.

He's seen over here in the UK as a laughing stock but we're also partly horrified that he can say such horrible things and nice people like yourself will not only support him, but will go out of their way to defend him.

Humor is a powerful weapon and ridicule is very effective at swaying popular opinion, but it just shows that's all they've got... they have no substantive arguments against him so all they can do is mock his hair race bait.

I still haven't heard a substantive argument against him here. We seem to actually agree on the substantive issue of foreign policy. I have mostly had to try and deprogram you all from the race baiting programming you received through the media.

Yes it does, the minimum wage has worked our well here and countries with higher minimum wages tend to have higher standards of living. That's a point of view, reducing taxes and 'freeing up the markets' doesn't seem to work wherever it's been done. I agree in our countries that things work in favour of the rich, the power and large corporations. I think Capitalism and Materialism is the main underlying problem personally and that's what really needs to change.

I disagree. Higher relative to what? And the higher standards of living in some of these countries may be due to other policies which I would support (like decriminalizing drugs - no victim no crime). I think centralized power is the main issue and socialism and globalism is just another system full of empty promises that get well-meaning gullible people to go along with more centralization of power. We haven't had truly free markets for a very long time and that is why we are riding the biggest economic bubble in world history that is popping and taking down the whole world system with it. This is by design to get the world on one centrally controlled digital currency. To mask the collapse they need to take us to war and they have been doing everything imaginable to try and start a war.

Do the decent thing and just acknowledge he's said some bad stuff instead of trying to explain it all away.

When I see a quote I'll disavow it. I really dislike what he has said about torture and completely disagree with it. But he did somewhat backtrack on that the next day.

Nah, he wants to 'build a wall and make Mexico pay for it' - it's nonsense.

I'm hoping it is symbolic of other policies that will effectively put up a wall by enforcing existing immigration law. I don't think he is that dumb.

We need to stop finding ways to divide and separate from each other and stop defining ourselves by the bit of land we were born on with artificial borders.

But we have to have borders or we are not a nation. If we are not a nation and merely a fuzzy amalgamation of watered down cultures in the globalist soup, we have a much smaller voice and no say over our future. We need smaller and smaller governments and the bigger the government (as in more people and resources) the more checks there needs to be on its power.

I don't think that because immigration has been halted before means it should be done again. Why is immigration such a big issue to you anyway? You commented about without doors your house won't be a house for long - it seems like fear seems to be behind many of your political views. Fear is a bad emotion and it clouds our mind and judgement. It at times has completely ruined my life and continues to in some ways.

It's not fear mongering to lock your door or be selective about who you allow inside your house around your loved ones.

Immigration is a matter of law. Congress has the authority under the constitution to develop the laws of the land particularly concerning national borders. The president does not have the authority to do as he has done and nullify the law by ordering enforcers of the law (border patrol and ICE) to stop enforcing the law. If we want to have open borders and let anyone in, then it has to be put to a vote and go through the normal legislative process.

The borders are wide open letting thousands of people in. Of those thousands some are criminals and some are terrorists some are merely adding to the competition for labor for jobs (because they don't pay taxes they can work for less) that are disappearing while demanding free healthcare and welfare leeching off of what remains of the middle class.

We are literally witnessing the purposeful destruction and dissolution of the U.S. right now.

I don't feel like entertaining conspiracy/Zionism type views. If you hold them whatever but I'm not interested in debating them with you sorry.

Well you should really look into it because the world is run by elite secret societies and they hate Donald Trump because he is not part of the brotherhood and is not controlled by them. Zionism is only one aspect of this but a very prominent part of it.

By the way "Conspiracy Theorist" was a term promoted by the CIA as a pejorative to mock and shame people away from looking into legitimate corruption.
 
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Europeans have suffered a major bombing in London (7/7) that killed over 50 people and the bombers had been brought up in the UK,





30 Britons were killed on a beach in Tunisia, a Muslim doctor and his friend tried to drive a burning car packed with gas cylinders into a departures hall crowded with families, there have been several Muslim attempts to down transatlantic airliners, an entire concert hall full of young people were being killed one by one until the Muslim killers were themselves taken out by security forces (some of those killers were from Belgium). Hundreds of Muslim youths went to Syria to fight with ISIS despite having (presumably) seen some of the awful things that ISIS were doing. Etc.

We are not talking about race here, but about religion. Christianity went through some barbarous phases in the past, and Islam seems to be in one now.

The far right has been pretty much wiped out by UKIP, and really, to be honest what have they done that compares with that catalogue I just quoted?

Well some weren't - possibly the ringleaders. All were Muslim. I mean we pretend that only a tiny minority of people are sympathetic to terrorism, but our security services are overloaded with the task of chasing down all the plotters and getting them into court.

I would say that political correctness meant that everyone had to assume that opposition forces in Iraq and the other countries were pro-Western, whereas in reality they were also fired up with militant Islam.


Well historically the US invited people to come, but it vetted them pretty carefully when they arrived - as it does Europeans who fly over on holiday.

Nobody wants war - and that is part of the point here. Americans are sick to death with fighting wars in far away places, and then realising that they made things much worse! I think Donald Trump actually understands that. I think he also realises that the West has sold vast numbers of jobs to other countries, and the rich elites haven't cared. Ordinary people care very much!

David

Interesting experience I offer for what it's worth...

My ex lived in Beeston just before the London bombing for a year, as a new teacher... the mosque was actually the house next door... One bomber came from my ex's street, and two from the street next door IIRC.

There were burnt out cars in the streets, burning oil drums, and mattresses etc. But the people were fine, never had any problems from the residents... Only experience disrespect and unfair treatment from the police and the council... first time I had seen it from the other side... it was a valuable lesson.

The bins were never emptied, rubbish never removed, frankly the people were ghettoised, and mistreated, because they were poor and of a different race, and language difficulties/education meant they didn't know their rights, and could not negotiate our system. The police would often get the wrong house, (my ex's a couple of times) and behave in ways I would not expect when dealing with a white middle class family...

My ex got nowhere with the bins, so I escalated it to a councillor, and finally threatened legal action for environmental health reasons... That finally did something... All the bins started getting emptied again.

It was a horrible place to live... but the people were fine... I could see how children born to these families would be educated beyond their parents, and become frustrated with their families unfair treatment, and easily radicalised, because for some of them, the world of Beeston must have felt a very wrong place.
 
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