Far.From.Here
New
What I have done is lived with queer and gay people. Worked with them. Loved them and lost them. I don't think I need to rad about their "rights."
Transgender phenomena and past lives: any thoughts
- Thread starter Larry
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Obiwan
Member
I think Doppelganer is referring to the connection between gay rights and the need to fight for them and the tie in with misogyny and the repression of women. The premise seems to be that often gay people are viewed as behaving in a feminine way and that prejudice against them is in some way rooted in the fact that they are 'behaving like women' and therefore attract the same prejudice. There may be an element of that but I think that's extremely simplistic.
I think perhaps we're going a bit too far off topic here. The original question was about transgender and past lives. It's an interesting discussion nevertheless -I wonder if it needs a separate thread?
S
Sciborg_S_Patel
I was thinking about this some more - I recall a Chinese cartoon [relating to Chinese mythology] mentioning that gay people were gendered souls in the "wrong" body. The problem here, as Doppleganger noted, is that it seems to simply confirm the idea that gays are "feminine" or "masculine" beings which AFAICTell doesn't hold up to scrutiny?
Philosophically the issue would be the conclusion seems anchored by observation of Nature, where hetereosexuality occurs with higher probability than homosexuality. To then conclude souls are gendered....possibly runs into the Naturalistic Fallacy?
OTOH there may be something it is like to be a man or woman completely divorced from any cultural notions of gender. Hinduism does have some ideas about gendered souls and past lives, will look into it and come back to this...
Obiwan
Member
The short answer is that I don't know :). I can't speak for 'my people' lol but I certainly don't feel as though I am in any sense in the wrong body or not fully a man. That said, I wouldn't like to extrapolate my own experience to infer things about other people's. The problem is perhaps that much of what is written, is written by people who have no direct experience of what they are writing about. Even if they have, it is their own experience which I think it can be dangerous to use as a basis for inferring things about other people of sexuality and gender in general. They try to find commonality or an analogy to understand what is happening but end up being simplistic or plain wrong.
I guess physical gender may only be a function of living in the physical world, assuming there is some non-physical part of us which endures. The physical differences are clearly primarily designed for procreation which is necessary for incarnation. Just why the differences have evolved in the way they have or why they confer particular physical advantages to males, who knows.
S
Sciborg_S_Patel
Well you do have the weight of history AFAICTell - there doesn't seem to be much in either parapsychology, the occult, or myths tying homosexuality to gendered souls outside of the assumption that even souls would be hetereosexual?
Some past life stuff about being the other gender, but from what I've read of past-life regressions genders switch often enough. Of course there are other things we can speculate about - do our "souls", which we might consider to be our subtle bodies, all have the same "race"?
It's possible some souls are subtle bodies from the spiritual world that are fixed gender, while other souls are genderless. Really when it comes to the spiritual world we don't know much....even its existence can be questioned....
Obiwan
Member
I'm not saying my knowledge of the subjective is exhaustive, or even extensive but I would say it's difficult to be certain. In the case of reincarnation (I'm on the fence), people do seem to return as either sex. It's unclear to me what their underlying sexuality is, or even if there is one.
After-death communicators all appear to identify with a particular sex. Whether this is simply in the early stages or while they need to prove their identity I don't know. I had a quick look through Silver Birch's teachings as I quite like his angle on things but couldn't spot anything obvious. I'll have a better look when I get the chance.
Doppelgänger
New
I wasn't trying to lecture you. But, fine, I will get off my "high horse" and stop commenting on the forum about any issue connected to feminism, gay rights or trans ideology.
Obiwan
Member
Feel free to comment on whatever you like. You're making good points. Perhaps try to sound a little less judgemental.
Laird
Member
Totally agreed with Obiwan. And I also hope you (Doppelgänger) don't self-censor like that because there's a question I want to ask you: what do you understand the words "masculine" and "feminine" to refer to? You seem to reject as regressive commonly understood notions of masculinity and femininity, so is there anything tangible, non-physical and non-regressive that we can point to and say, "This is what it means to be [masculine or feminine]"? Or is there nothing more to being a man or woman than our physical characteristics?
Re the thread topic: I've wondered about this too; am too ignorant on these things to comment more than that though. Have gotten a lot out of the discussion and links in this thread though, thanks everybody.
Doppelgänger
New
I am not trying to be judgmental. I am invested in this discussion because my own son, who is six, has often been described by parents as "not like other boys"; he, when given the choice, prefers to play with girls rather than boys; that he has been teased as being "gay" by classmates (in first grade!) -- I shut that down right away by going to his teacher about it. He loves animals and what might be described as a "gentle soul." But my son is a boy, and if he turns out to be gay, great -- I don't care about him being straight or gay. It doesn't matter to me. Or maybe he will change in a few years. I just don't want people pigeon-holing him at six, calling him a "girl" or called "gay" as a slur. His best friend is a girl, whose parents are a lesbian couple.
Gay rights is a big deal to me, but I am sorry you thought I was lecturing you when I was mainly using your post as a way to explain my thoughts. I will definitely refrain from talking about these issues again on the forums, though.
Far.From.Here
New
I was much the same as a boy although there wasn't the kind of teasing then that there is now.
I agree about discussing online. I'm quite sure we could have a wonderful chat over coffee, but the nature of forum discussion makes this one difficult. Apologies for getting upset earlier.
Doppelgänger
New
That would be an interesting conversation to have, but my opinions seem to be misunderstood, at best, and at worst, twisted. I'm not sure I have the energy to constantly explain myself when everyone thinks I am bigoted, a hater, judgmental, or somehow against gays -- none of that describes me.
Laird, you might be familiar with DGR? Though I don't agree with a lot of their ideology, they have a good explanation about masculinity and femininity.
This will be my last post on the subject, unless someone respectfully asks a specific question without insults.
Doppelgänger
New
Thank you, Chuck, that means a lot to me since I respect you so much on the forum. Your earlier reply actually upset me, and I had to collect myself to reply back to you. (Not sure if my reply made things worse though -- I hope it didn't!)
I am sure online discussion makes things worse -- I really didn't intend to come off as an asshole or judgmental, but alas, it did.
And if you still lived on the West Coast, I would totally have coffee with you! :)
Obiwan
Member
I'm not saying you're judgemental. Just that it sounds like you are sometimes. I have no idea who you are or what you're like. It's just feedback.
Obiwan
Member
Even if you don't feel qualified to comment, everyone is qualified to ask questions.
Doppelgänger
New
Okay? You did tell me to get off my "high horse," when really I am just passionate about these issues. But maybe I should rethink my phrasing? I am not a "hater" or anything like that. But yes, I will refrain for now, unless asked specific questions asked in good faith. :)
Obiwan
Member
I did because that's how it looked and sounded. Passion and dogmatism can sound very similar when we don't know the speaker. Whether you refrain from commenting or not is a matter for you really. There's no need to.
Doppelgänger
New
I don't think I am dogmatic, though I can be passionate. I am actually very open-minded these days, and more so as I get older. But, again, I will stop, because my thoughts and arguments offend others, and offending others is not something I want to do. And I don't want to burn any bridges.
Cheers.
Obiwan
Member
Your arguments aren't a problem. Just the presentation perhaps sometimes.